John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd)

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Subject: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd)
Subject: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d)
Prof laments new MBAs

EDUCATION: Claims a ´dramatic decline into mediocrity´

MONTREAL -- An increasing number of Canada´s business schools are literally selling MBAs to generate revenue for their ravenous budgets, according to veteran Concordia University finance professor Alan Hochstein.

That apparent growing trend to make master of business administration degrees easier to achieve at a premium cost is leading to "sub-standard education for enormous fees," says the self-proclaimed whistle-blower.

"I know what I´m talking about," Hochstein said, noting he´s been director of all four MBA programs at Concordia´s John Molson School of Business over the past 27 years. He is currently on sabbatical as director of the school´s Goodman Institute of Investment Management.

"I´ve seen the dramatic decline into mediocrity," Hochstein said, referring to the combined lax entry requirements and fast-tracking of programs.

While students can still choose a standard two-year, full-time program or standard five-year part-time program, other options now include accelerated programs that halve the standard time and some that allow students to work full time or part time while earning their degree.

"I don´t trust any MBA grad anymore [who obtained a degree] under two years," Hochstein said. "You can´t learn the material [properly that fast]."

He likened it to having accelerated programs in medicine or law, wondering who would trust a doctor or lawyer who had graduated from a school that promised students they would be required to do less and less work in less time than in the past simply for a higher tuition fee.

Hochstein is also critical of executive MBA programs that place more emphasis on age and experience and Canadian business schools that partner with sister schools in the U.S. to offer two-for-one degrees.

Two examples he gave are Queen´s University in Kingston offering a joint program with Ivy-League Cornell University in central New York state for $92,000 and York University´s Schulich School of Business in Toronto twinning with the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University in Chicago for $90,000.

Hochstein noted "practically nobody fails and a failure rate less than 10 per cent is suspect."

The head of the Canadian Federation of Business School Deans couldn´t be reached for comment last week but has been quoted in the past defending innovations he said have revolutionized the MBA market.

"While it´s unusual for a business professor to attack innovation,

Mr. Hochstein has one thing right: There is no virtue in choice if it comes at the expense of quality," federation chairman David Saunders has said.

Saunders, dean of Queen´s business school, explained that leading business schools use innovation to give students an unprecedented range of choices.

"If you´ve got a great product and no one wants it -- if no one wants to show up eight-to-five during the week -- I think it´s far better to design your product the way the market wants," he said recently in Canadian Business.



[29-11-2006,10:55]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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I wonder where he graduated from, hopefully not Concordia.

[29-11-2006,11:46]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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Concordia Business > McGill Business

Alan Hochstein
Department of Finance

Dr. Alan Hochstein joined Concordia University´s Finance Department in 1984. He received his PhD (1979) from McGill University. He was promoted to Associate Professor in 1988 and received tenure in 1989.

Prior to his arrival at Concordia, Dr. Hochstein taught economics at McGill´s graduate business school for a number of years. He has handled several administrative positions at the University. He was Director of the John Molson MBA Program, the Executive MBA Program, the Aviation MBA Program and the Goodman Institute.

[29-11-2006,12:04]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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http://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/news/?ItemID=22876

McGill MBA students capture international title

November 27, 2006

A team of five students from McGill University?s Desautels Faculty of Management has been recognized as the "Most Innovative MBA Team in the World" at the 2006 Innovation Challenge competition at the University of Virginia?s Darden Graduate School of Business, beating out 439 teams of graduate business students from around the globe.

The world?s largest competition for business innovation, the event attracted teams from 88 universities who competed to present solutions to real-world problems facing major corporations.

Desautels MBA candidates Heather Powers, Kanhaiya Sinha, Stavros Tsokonas and Luc Tran and architecture doctoral student Jonathan Powers developed the two winning programs in the final round on November 17 and 18. Their entries, which garnered a $20,000 prize, focused on helping DaimlerChrysler to connect with baby boomers, and Hilton Hotels to grow through partnerships. Details of the winning programs cannot be disclosed as they are now the intellectual property of DaimlerChrysler and Hilton Hotels.

Unlike a traditional business plan competition, Innovation Challenge rewards innovation and features crowdcasting, whereby corporations bypass high-priced consultants and in-house marketers by harnessing insights from the world?s top business students. Five corporations ?DaimlerChrysler, General Electric, American Express OPEN, Whirlpool and Hilton Hotels ?submitted problems to teams of three to five students.

A panel of judges from sponsors, industry and academia selected the McGill team for its consistently innovative proposals. Teams from the Kenan-Flagler School at the University of North Carolina?Chapel Hill and Sloan School of Management at MIT finished second and third, respectively.

In last year?s competition, the McGill team finished 15th among 321 teams from 83 universities in 18 countries.

[29-11-2006,13:47]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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teams that participated included Harvard, MIT, Yale, Cambridge, UC Berkely, Duke, Cornell, Columbia, HEC Paris, INSEAD, London Business School, University of Chicago, just to name a few.

Canadian teams included the winner, McGill, as well as UofT Rotman and UBC Sauder.

http://www.innovationchallenge.com/EnrolledTeams.jsp


[29-11-2006,13:47]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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haha funny

If Mcgill MBAs are so strong then why dont they win at the John Molson case comp?



[30-11-2006,00:36]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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the John Molson case comp is just a little warmup compared to this intl competition, which has Harvard, MIT, etc. competiting in it.

[30-11-2006,01:24]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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Well, what does that US competition mean when McGill does so poorly at the John Molson MBA competition with so many Canadian and European business schools participating?

McGill´s crumbling 30 year old Bronfman business building won´t be anywhere as posh as the future 15 floor $118 Million John Molson tower which will be ready in 2009.





[30-11-2006,01:56]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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what does it mean? well it means that a McGill team won an international competition that included the top schools in the world while they couldn´t give a crap about the John Molson comp which had such "top" schools competing in it such as the revered Pan-African university at Lagos and Xiamen university. lol you´re comparing the olympics to an intrumural tournament. and how many times did your new building get construction delayed due to poor funding? yeah i thought so.

[30-11-2006,02:43]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof)
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so mcgill finally wins at something...well, that´s great and about time..but we in montreal all know the real deal with mcgill is that it´s a facsimile of the pr it puts out...so, people, enjoy your 15 minutes in the limelight...no one will remember darden the next time you get creamed..

[30-11-2006,07:31]
Anonymous


[30-11-2006,09:43]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof (Cont´d))
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hmmm, Concordia has won 2 of the 4 competitions it has held.... hahaha you guys are a joke! and I agree with the last post... you are bitter!



[30-11-2006,19:52]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof (Cont´d))
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guys, to be honest, i don´t think it´s worth the effort to argue with a Concordian. it really isnt´.

[30-11-2006,21:36]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof (Cont´d))
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huh?

You guys make no sense.

I guess Mcgill is now better than Harvard...

who would have thought.

If we use the same line of reasoning as the Mcgill morons, then one would think that Concordia is better than Wharton since the former beat Wharton (and Mcgill) last year in a famous undergraduate business comp held in California.

Makes sense? No. So shut your traps, you dumb business students.



[01-12-2006,01:52]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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zzzzzzzzzzzz

[01-12-2006,02:21]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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ZZZ ZZZZ ZZZZ..........

[01-12-2006,03:13]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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Concordians and McGilligans can agree on one thing.

Concordia > UofT

McGill > UofT

Queen´s > UofT



[01-12-2006,08:36]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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To the Concordia moron who cut and pasted the replies posted on the subject except this one which he suspiciously left out:

Your bitterness and stupidity is forgiven only because you guys are obviously Concordia students. But everyone knows that McGill is one of the most prestigious universities in Canada (#1 in in the last two years ?Macleans). See ANY ranking and tell me where is Concordia. Outside of Canada people don?t even know that Concordia exists. Anybody who says they knew about it probably tried but couldn?t get into McGill.

Regarding the MBA school per se, you argue that McGill PR is what carries its excellent reputation (#44 worldwide in the Financial Times ranking, the only one that truly ranks worldwide schools together...where is Concordia? That?s right, you?re not even ranked!!!) but another of you equates a brand new building with education quality? Isn?t that a poor attempt to hide your famously shitty program with flash? Well, only a dim-witted idiot would use a bad managed project that has been delayed many times as an example of the greatness of its management school. Get yourself a decent campus first!

The saddest part of all this is that you are putting down a McGill team because they WON an international competition which is by all accounts and measures much more intense and tough than a CASE competition you ignorant monkeys. Let me teach you, the teams have to actually work weeks preparing for the first and final rounds and they are not constrained by facts of a case given, they have to actually do research.

Your ignorance is what makes Concordia so special. I can?t even believe you are laughing at a winning team and at a much better school, hands down, no argument. You are just bitter and hence you have lost all credibility.

[01-12-2006,13:24]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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I like the way you contradict yourself.

Just read your statement; every argument you used to convince us that Mcgill is better than Concordia are the same arguments you deemed stupid a few posts ago. Youre a complete dolt.

You tell concordia students to get a decent campus but just before you said a building does not measure quality. WTf? The fact that Mcgill won some competition means nothing at all. Mcgill commerce students finished 5th last year at commerce games. fuck they finished behind University of three rivers. You are simply using one example to lead to your conclusion. everyone can do that. Its just dumb. By the way, I would like to remind you that this year´s top performer (in Quebec) for the UFE exam was a concordia student. Also, if Mcgill MBA is so good then why did your top female graduate (B.comm) end up going to Concordia for her MBA? Look up Asheesh Sarin:

http://www.johnmolson.concordia.ca/cpc/pdf/2005mbaprofilebooklet.pdf

You are the same twit from India who studies marketing at Mcgill and keeps making fun of UOfT and spends all his time on this forum defending Mcgill management. Dude, everyone thinks Mcgill is good for science but management sucks. Youre not fooling anyone.



[01-12-2006,18:27]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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Oh please do not bring up that FT ranking. Mcgill has been 44th for a long time now. Its like HEc montreal being ranked among the ten best schools outside of USA. Who the hell would believe that?



[01-12-2006,18:28]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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Executive MBAs ARE a scam, regardless of where they comes from. It´s like computer certifications.... professionals paying money (but not time) to fatten their resumes.

[01-12-2006,18:32]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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it´s a waste of time arguing with concordians. look, we´re in mcgill, they got rejected. let them talk about how their business school is better than ours, but at the end of the day, students from Harvard, Yale, Cornell, all the ivies along with top int. schools like Cambridge, INSEAD, London Business School witnessed McGill win a competition they participated in. This happened while Concordians celebrated their victory in the eyes of their "international" competitors such as Pan-African University Lagos and Xiamen University. lol!!!!

[01-12-2006,20:56]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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oh yeah, and Asheesh Sarin also chose John Molson over Schulich, Queen´s, Western, oh and also Harvard, MIT, etc. I guess John Molson is better than these schools? LOL nice logic there, reject.

and btw HEC Mtl is a damn good business school, better than JMSB at least.

[01-12-2006,20:58]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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Who the fuck knows why she chose Concordia over any other school, she could have had a bad experience at McGill...for all we know McGill reminded her of an old boyfriend.. who cares about her!!!! Using personal choices means nothing you tool.

Facts speak louder.. again, I´m asking you to show me ANY ranking in the fucking world where Concordia ranks at all!!! ANY ranking, for the love of God, where Concordia ranks better than McGill. or even close!! yes, McGill has been top 50 worldwide for a long time (as if that was a bad thing! hahaha)where the fuck is Concordia? we are top 50, you????? NOWHERE because NOONE knows anything about Concordia outside Montreal! why people don´t know about it? because it´s a piece of shit! that´s why.

And no, I didn´t contradict myself... what kind of management is ready to spend 100+ million in a building when you don´t have a campus? you are boasting about the excellent management education that Concordia offers yet you cannot manage your own resources effectively? Again, let me explain in simple terms so that you can understand, the building is not in discussion, it´s the bad management behind it, which ironically, is what you are trying to portray as being the greatest!!! Would you trust a manager that cannot manage? NO. Would you trust a management school that cannot manage a project (a single building!)? Absolutely NO!

You guys keep coming up with arguments that you cannot substantiate.

You guys have a huge inferiority complex and the only way you can feel good about your school is trying to convince yourselves that you´re at the same level as McGill. Please notice that NOONE in this forum argues about the standing of Concordia, they always argue about the schools at the top, the usual suspects, UofT, McGill, Queen´s, Western, UBC etc. and whether they are 1,2,3. Concordia... never... not even mentioned, why? don´t even try to answer that... you´ve made a fool of yourself, there is no need to humiliate yourself anymore.






[01-12-2006,23:00]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Prof Disses Queen´s & York (Cont´d))
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BTW, I´m not from India and I don´t study marketing.


[02-12-2006,02:33]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
McGill > Concordia

but,

U of T > McGill

[02-12-2006,02:37]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
and Queen´s > UofT

source: Maclean´s

[02-12-2006,03:04]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
Business school? or School as a whole?

Business school: Rotman is a solid school and in Canada it has a better rep than McGill. But go anywhere outside of Canada and it´s not the case.

In Canada

Rotman > McGill

Outside

McGill >>>>> Rotman

As a School overall:

in Canada

McGill ~ UofT

Internationally

McGill >>>>> UofT any day



[02-12-2006,03:09]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
^tell the people the truth buddy.

U of T > McGill

[02-12-2006,03:11]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
^Not so.

McGill > UofT as a school according to rankings (MacLeans and THES)

You want to live in the past? be my guest. UofT´s time has passed.

[02-12-2006,03:42]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
12 years might seem a long time for you uoft fanboys but it´s a fraction of time compared to McGill´s long domination of Canadian academics throughout its history. McGill is back, uoft is now officially history.
[02-12-2006,04:26]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
McGill is good at research, thus the high rankings, but when it comes to face-to-face student competition, especially against John Molson, John Molson owns McGill.

John Molson beats McGill when it counts - every year at the Commerce Games and at the John Molson MBA Case Competition.

The McGill fanboy is an idiot. He ridicules the JMSB MBA competition becuase JMSB invites universities from all parts of the world to compete, yet McGill insists on participating at our prestigious business event every year. So, if McGill is too good for the other 28 schools that enter the competition every year, why does McGill come every year? Perhaps, McGill likes getting their butt kicked every year by JMSB.

JMSB - Clearly, the #1 business school east of Ontario. There will be no doubters once the new JMSB building is ready in 2009.




[02-12-2006,06:32]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
To the Concordia retard:

Again, one more time... we moved on, we´re discusing real schools not no name schools. There is no place for Concordia here.

Enter a team in next years Innovation Challenge (McGill #1 - 440 teams, 88 universities from 15 countries) for MBA´s or to the Citigroup case comp for undergrads held in Hong Kong (McGill #3) both of which are TRULY international and where the best schools compete and then we talk. Molson comp is at best a feel good competition for Concordia which, by the way, McGill has won in the past and Concordia has won two of the last four? mmm interesting... enough said.

Can we talk now about real schools?

For all of you who don´t know, Concordia is a school in Montreal considered by most an inferior school where McGill rejects end up going. Concordia has an inferiority complex as you can see.




[02-12-2006,09:45]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
Concordia boy...WFT.. are you that brainwashed? All you have come up with over and over again is your OWN case comp which you put together and win! a case comp that after 25+ yrs of existence you only managed to recruit 28 schools, 4 of which are from Montreal?

And of course let´s not forget the building! which doesn´t even exists and it´s not going to be ready until Sept 2009. The same building we have already established it´s construction is an embarrassment to any project management team!

Basically you´re saying that your reputation as a business school rests on only these two? is that it? Did I miss something here?

Get a life! Your rhetoric might work with Concordia students who are pretty slow but not with everyone else.




[02-12-2006,10:47]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
Actually the Concordia EMBA program is ranked 68th in the World according to FT.

Anyways, I dont see the point in calling concordia students rejects since the admission reqs to get into Mcgill management are the same as concordia for Cegep students.




[02-12-2006,13:31]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
You Mcgill students are hilarious though... I Mean, you debate with so much farvour. Its quite amusing. Too bad youre a dumb little boy. Everyone knows your commerce program is a fucking joke. All the students party hardy and dont do shit diddly. Class averages in the 40s in accounting courses. And it is not because the exams are hard; it is because youre a bunch of dumbasses. Please do not tell me otherwise. WE have profs teaching at Mcgill and they tell us all about it. You kids need to grow up and stop hiding behind the Mcgill name. Behind the bronfman walls, youre just a bunch of little HS kids having fun and pretending to be "top" students.




[02-12-2006,13:34]
Anonymous
(in reply to: John Molson Better than McGill for Biz? (Cont'd))
*fervor


[02-12-2006,13:43]
Anonymous



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