UofT desperate

Canadian Universities Forum (discussion group)


 
 
Subject: UofT desperate
Some UofT kid is really trying hard to make UofT appear the best. Lets look at what the kid says:

1) "Size does matter, when it translates to quantity AND quality."

Okay ... yeah, we believe you.

2) "Study the published results from Scientific Thomson, again. Not only does the University of Toronto lead in Total Citations, (number of published papers), it also leads in Research Impact (AVERAGE citations per paper). Again, UofT lead in FIVE fields, UBC lead in ONE, and McGill did not lead in ANY."

First, this is only 2 paragraph press release hidden in the bowels of Thomposn Corps´ website, which nobody care about except for people who go to UofT. Second, the score you refer to is based on a combination of impact and number of publications in a subset of scientific displines. Does this translate overall, no! Third, Thompson core never set out to rank universities, so you can not say a university is better based on this 2 paragraph press release. Fourth, scoring first in a some categories does not mandate better than another university overall. You should learn about averaging. There is an excellent website for you to learning about averaging:
http://www.easycalculation.com/statistics/mean-median-mode.php

3) "The University of Toronto faculty have also won almost a quarter of all national awards, even though its faculty comprises only 7 percent of all university faculty in the
country."

The dude is twising things. Correction: UofT won almost a quarter of Royal Society awards in 2005. Not all national awards! So what? UofT had a good year. McGill won OVER a quarter of the Royal Society awards in 1999.

4) "The University of Toronto library is ranked the third best research library-the hallmark of a great research university-in North America, after Harvard and Yale. Source: The Association of Research Libraries."

Oh, common! As if having Canada´s biggest library makes you the best university. That is weak. Who cares!

[20-10-2006,06:39]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
^ GET A LIFE!
[20-10-2006,08:12]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Talk about desperatae, LOL.
[20-10-2006,14:52]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Listen,

The Scientific Thomson results are indicators of the disciplines where U of T is clearly a leader in relation to the rest of Canadian universities.

Where is UBC? Where is McGill?

Go on and do your averaging...This does not change the fact that U of T leads in RESEARCH IMPACT.

As for having Canada´s biggest research library, this does matter. Harvard has the world´s largest research library. Where is Harvard? It happens to be the world´s number one university as ranked by many publications.

[20-10-2006,16:29]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
The Thomson results are for 21 scientific fields. Count them-21.

Are these a "SUBSET" of scientific disciplines" as you claim? The list is certainly not exhaustive, but representative of fields.

The Thomson results of using Research Impact removes the advantage of a university´s size by highlighting the significance of the individual work.

[20-10-2006,16:43]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
You just confirmed that McGill is on its way down, resting on its laurels, relying on a reputation of its past glories, etc...

The fact that McGill won OVER a quarter of the Royal Society awards is a joke. When did this happen? 1999? That´s OVER 6 years ago!! Where is McGill now? Oh, right...it did tie for first in the Macleans´ ranking this year...with U of T. (By the way, Maclean´s rankings are also a joke)


[20-10-2006,16:48]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Where is McGill now? Did you miss the latest THES ranking that came out a few weeks ago? Did you miss the part where Research Infosource named it "Research University of the Year"? You can talk all you want about Thomson, but Research Infosource´s ranking shows that McGill is the top research university in the country. but wait, Thomson is the GOLD STANDARD isn´t it. what a joke!
[20-10-2006,17:16]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
suddenly maclean´s is a joke ever since mcgill caught up to uoft. what´s the gold standard now?
[20-10-2006,17:17]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Did I miss out on the THES ranking? You bet I did, especially when the Shanghai Jiaotong Rankigs and Newsweek Rankings consistently place U of T well ahead of McGill. Heck, even UBC is placed higher!!


[20-10-2006,18:59]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
McGill as Research University of the Year??

Didn´t McMaster win this honours last year??

McMaster may be a fine university, but it certainly isn´t considered a great research university like U. of T. or UBC.

What a gold standard...

[20-10-2006,19:05]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Everyone should stop bashing the University of Toronto, McGill, UBC, etc...

It is fair to say that no Canadian university rivals the great American universities.

That said, McGill may be perceived as more prestigious than the University of Toronto, but the University of Toronto is undoubtedly Canada´s foremost research university, given its size. UBC is ranked among these, and is certainly on the rise.

End of discussion

[20-10-2006,19:31]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
that´s great that you missed out on THES, but you fail to realize that the rest of the world missed out on jiatong and newsweek (which isn´t really a new ranking, just 55% jiatong and 45% thes) since they STILL view McGill as the preeminent, most prestigious Canadian university. so stick to your nice little Thomson and jiatong cuz NO ONE in the world cares! Have a nice day!

PS your little comment on Mac shows the utter ignorance and arrogance of uoft kids.

[20-10-2006,21:53]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
McGill is lucky to even be named the second best University in Canada. If you look at all the rankings and work out the average rank of each Canadian University, UofT is first, UBC second, and McGill a distant third.

BTW, Newsweek is half THES and half SJTU, so don´t make up lies and say that it´s 45-55.

The THES ranking bases 50% of it´s weighting on reputation, which is obviously obsurd.

If you were better educated you´d realize that Thomson Scientific is a hugely respected corporation in Academia, while Research Infosource is basically unknown. Thomson published a bunch of stats and they concluded that UofT is by far the best in Canada while McGill was not mentioned.

Honestly kids, it´s common knowledge that UofT is tops in Canada. Get with it.

[20-10-2006,22:07]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
UofT is even lucky to be noticed in rankings in general. It´s a no-name university around the world. Ask anyone around the world if they know anything about Canadian universities and expect a reply about McGill. It´s that simple. McGill is the number 1 university in Canada and is known as the Harvard of Canada. UBC is also known, but mostly to asians. UofT is known to nobody but ignorant ontarians.
You´re right, Newsweek is not not 55-45 SJTU/THES. It´s more like 50-40 plus 10 percent based on library holdings! What a load of crap. Obviously a 70k+ (!!) university will do well with the library holdings. and since the ranking sways more towards SJTU, which gives a bigger disparity in rankings between McGill, UBC and UofT, then obviously the results will be similar to SJTU´s. So don´t make the Newsweek ranking as if it´s a "new" ranking. And you know what else is absurd? this great SJTU ranking allocates 30% of their ranking to Nobel Prize winners, dead or alive!! What kind of stupid ranking is this? And they put way too much emphasis on the sciences.

If you weren´t so ignorant, you´d know that Research Infosource is one of the leading R&D firms in the country. Just because UofT isn´t #1 in this ranking, doesn´t mean the ranking is irrelevant.

Again, it isn´t "common knowledge" that UofT is the best in Canada. If it´s "common knowledge", then UofT has to be known in the first place. It isn´t. It´s a nobody school, a no-name outside of Canada. I´ve said this before and I´ll say this again. Not only can McGill boast about it´s accomplishments and #1 rankings (THES, Maclean´s, Research Infosource), but it also has the reputation and prestige to go along with it. UofT does not have anything. It can boast about their library holdings, their research this research that, but in the end, it will always be known as a 2nd or 3rd rate anonymous school in a nice country while McGill continues to be known as the premier university of this country.

[21-10-2006,00:35]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
^ funny post ^

That kid tries real hard :)

[21-10-2006,14:39]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Everyone in the world knows McGill is better?

That´s funny. Check out the McGill and UofT forums on collegeconfidential.com.

McGill has many more posts from NYC and Northeastern US students asking questions. Look for the questions asking which is a better school. Nobody claims McGill is the best in Canada but they all would rather spend 4 years in Montreal.

[21-10-2006,16:36]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
you want to talk about collegeconfidential? LMAO! It´s always a bunch of americans asking about Canadian universities, then a bunch of ppl saying, "well McGill is the best, it´s the Harvard of Canada", and then you see the hordes of uoft fanboys clamoring to the thread, trying to convince everyone that uoft is better. what a joke! look at the mcgill board and look at the uoft board. which university do americans care about, you tell me!
[21-10-2006,17:41]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
Yeah, let´s talk about collegeconfidential.

For one thing there are no hordes of UofT fanboys there. The opinions are coming from parents and other Canadians. Their postings are more on rhetoric and less on emotion than the opinions pissed around here. Last time I checked I didn´t see anyone arguing McGill was the best school in Canada.

Like you said, look at all the postings for the McGill vs UofT forums. I never deny that Americans would rather go to Montreal than Toronto - what´s the point of going to a foreign country afterall? I don´t blame them for that either. Faced with two equivalent institutions I´d go for the life experience too.

It would be one thing if you were arguing McGill is the equivalent or better than UofT - personal opinions and all that crap - but I couldn´t help laughing when I got to your last lines:

"UofT does not have anything. It can boast about their library holdings, their research this research that, but in the end, it will always be known as a 2nd or 3rd rate anonymous school in a nice country while McGill continues to be known as the premier university of this country."

[21-10-2006,22:14]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
You must be blind because the threads about canadian unis on collegeconfidential always start the same way. a bunch of people say that McGill is known as the Harvard of the North in their state, then a bunch of uoft fankids (which can include parents of uoft kids) get confrontational and tell them to read Macleans´ blah blah blah.

The choice between McGill or UofT isn´t as simple as a choice between which city to live in. It´s the prestige and reputation that factors in. If an american comes up to you and tells you to choose between Harvard or some unknown university in Miami, which would you choose? My last line isn´t funny, it´s reality. while UofT is a good school, it has no reputation internationally.

[21-10-2006,22:26]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
I disagree. Collegeconfidential is an American forum. American students are much more interested in McGill than any other school. Most of the parents in the McGill forum call themselves "McGill Mom" or "McGill Dad". My point is very few UofT students go on there, and I haven´t seen any references to Macleans lately. Those people arguing for UofT don´t got to UofT and they aren´t pushing the school - just responding to American students asking if McGill is really the best school in Canada.

The choice between what are arguable the two top schools very much depends on where you want to live. And - this is key here so sorry for the caps - IT MATTERS TO AMERICAN STUDENTS. The students in the McGill forum want to live in Montreal, period. Other American students want to go to UBC to live in Vancouver. Why would an American want to experience a "foreign country" by living in TO for 4 years? To many people deciding between McGill and UofT it would come down to class sizes, campuses, course selections, prestige of program and profs, tuition, etc. But if UofT was suddenly in Montreal and McGill was in Toronto, do you honestly think American students would start going to Toronto instead of Montreal?

Maybe it is because I wasn´t born in Canada and I live in Toronto but saying UofT has no international reputation makes me laugh. I don´t deny McGill has an international reputation too - in some quarters, ie Wall Street, better than UofT´s. However I´ve never heard anyone describe UofT as anything but Canada´s powerhouse. Whether you can accept that or not doesn´t matter to me, I´ve yet to meet someone who´s heard of McGill and not the University of Toronto.

[21-10-2006,22:48]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
"I?ve yet to meet someone who?s heard of McGill and not the University of Toronto."
now that is your problem. you disregard the fact that McGill is simply much much more known than UofT. If McGill was in Toronto and UofT was in Montreal, would american students go to Toronto? The answer is a resounding YES. While Montreal is indeed a more exciting location than Toronto, you also have to factor in the fact that it is also widely considered the Harvard of our country. And trust me, there are more people who have heard of McGill than UofT around the world. THES itself wrote that McGill was "the most visible" university in our country. Now same for you, you can decide to accept it or not.

[21-10-2006,23:08]
Anonymous
(in reply to: UofT desperate)
C´mon, be serious - you think American students would follow McGill to Toronto? There´s literally thousands of American universities and the vast majority of them are more well known to other Americans than any Canadian school. You honestly think the majority of US students going to McGill are going for the "McGill brand" and not because it´s in Montreal? Look, I´ve got nothing against McGill, I might even have gone to it if they offered my program, but your statements are ridiculous.
[22-10-2006,00:16]
Anonymous



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