York, Second Best in Ontario !

Canadian Universities Forum (discussion group)

Subject: York, Second Best in Ontario !
Statistics show York?s student performance and enrolment rate on the rise

Results are in for the annual recruitment drive of new students, which show York gaining significant ground on other Ontario universities in attracting high school graduates who have selected the university as their first-choice institution.

But the rising numbers have overshot enrolment targets and paint a troubling picture of overflowing classes without enough funding. York shot eight per cent over target in its enrolment numbers this year.

"It?s not a mountain and then a plateau. It?s a range of mountain after mountain, as far as the eye can see," said professor and chair of the english department, Kim Michasiw. The university has been overshooting its enrolment targets since the double cohort.

As a result professors cited difficulties in accommodating and budgeting for the new students with uncertainty. Government funding and the recruitment of full-time professors are also affected by such fluctuations.

Class number projections were further skewed by arts students taking Atkinson classes in the evening, and Atkinson students using day spaces in arts courses.

Professors involved in enrolment planning committees were quick to defend the figures. Rhonda Lenton, dean of the Faculty of Atkinson, argued that the results were astonishingly close to the targets, given all the variables that had to be taken into consideration.

Market share of Ontario high school graduates selecting York University as their first choice has soared to 11.2 per cent this year from 8.3 per cent in 1999, steadily increasing over the past six years. This marked the largest increase of any major Ontario university over the same time period.

York ranked second in market share of first choice students, after University of Toronto with 16 per cent, and just ahead of University of Western Ontario with eight per cent. Western had previously been in second place in 1999.

"The increase in market share that we experienced was because of a better recruitment process and particularly an improvement in our conversion rate," said vice-president students Robert Tiffin, while presenting the data during the year?s first Senate meeting.

Tiffin emphasized the team approach to the recruitment process, with the communications department launching a massive branding scheme and individual subject departments working effectively to promote their areas of learning.

York communications recently launched a controversial "theatre domination" branding campaign to promote the institution?s interdisciplinary approach to education, with thousands of ads on transit vehicles, magazines and Famous Players cinemas.

"Maybe this [target overshooting] is a signal that York University can indeed attract the brightest students, and we have had a lack of confidence in our ability to do so in the past years. Maybe we are starting to see York?s progress and effort in promoting our university," said Sheila Embleton, vice-president academic.

The grade quality of incoming students has also increased.

Roughly 86 per cent of York students accepted now have an average of 75 per cent or higher. Retention rates - the rate of students that continue their education - have increased in the third and fourth-year levels, but dipped in second year.

However, not everyone agrees with the increased quality of new students though.
"What assurances do we have? How do we know that York is getting the best students?" questioned economics professor Alan Shapiro.

Last Thursday, The Globe and Mail published an article highlighting the complaints of many professors about the lacklustre math and english skills of their students - even among those who have achieved stellar high school grades.

The article cited secondary school grade inflation, focus on visual learning instead of writing and a hurried high school curriculum as possible causes of poor student performance in the first year of university.

"York is doing the best it can to help new students that might be struggling, with background tutorials and extra help," said Embleton. It is unclear how these students are fairing in their classes at this early stage of the academic year though.
The university closed the application process early this summer due to the surge in interest, thus firming up class lists. Many students are now having significant inconveniences while trying to move around to other classes as the year begins.

York is already underway for next year?s cycle of recruitment with the Ontario Universities Fair 2005 this weekend. Approximately 65,000 prospective students are expected to attend the event at the Metro Convention Centre.

Fact ! Not Myth
(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
If York is Ontarios´s 2nd choice university, why are they ranked below so many Ontario universities in Maclean´s magazine?


Many students with lower averages are making York their first choice.

(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
^ The conclusion you have made is wrong.
Why? It is because Maclean´s ranking is biased.

(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
it´s not just macleans.

every university ranking in canada, north america, or the globe, indicates york SUCKS.


(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
Ive never read so much York propaganda in my life.


(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
actually to your disappointment, York ranked in the top 3 in the large university category for the 2005 Globe and Mail University Report Card ranking with a B+ in the overall education experience.

Macleans focuses largely on stats such as the amount of research grants, library holdings, class sizes etc while other rankings that York U does well in are more student based.

I am by no means saying that York is the best university in Canada but it certainly has alot of strengths and assets and perhaps this is the reason for such a large application record where students put York as their first choice.

You got to read between the lines and stop making general comments about universities. Western has a strong community life and business school as does Queens, McGill is a commuter campus and is very strong in sciences as does UofT and York is also a commuter campus with a good business school and strong liberal and fine arts. However, I am sure that this is not all these schools have to offer.

What is one man´s gold may be another man´s garbage. This is exactly what universities are about. York may not be good for you but for some it may be perfect.

I am not trying to insult anyone or lecture people on their knowledge but this is something that I have learned over the years after doing my switching universities in Ontario to do my undergrad. Hopefully this will be something that can be integrated in this forum.

Best of Luck

Adam Murray
(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
are you trying to tell us york is satisfying their students?

did you really just do that?

(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
are you really telling me that you can´t read. Please go to the University Report Card Rankings 2005 and just READ. Is it that hard?
(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
that globe and mail ranking is a joke.
(in reply to: York, Second Best in Ontario !)
Dear Future Students who may be considering York U,


York has a problem hiring professors that are proficient in the language of: ENGLISH

Atkinson is a major joke and very full of itself.

If you are considering York, I strongly suggest going there before you apply and talk to any of the students who got suckered into going there because they were misinformed by things like the globe and mail reports.


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