success story part 2

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: success story part 2
  from previous thread.

sharon,
Consider those jobs ??
Now, why did I waste 24 years of my life in academia for an MS engineering degree, again?
------------------------

Raj... I want to comment but everything I write sounds very rude. I will just let our friends post illustrate my point.

[10-06-2005,23:17]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon
funny (in reply to: success story part 2)
Sharon, you are so funny :)
Anything you try to say kind of seem to have double meaning. So many times it is like that, I guess it is your style of writing. Even when you said that about "dirty hands", not really dirty but (honest jobs), however it sounded like low paid dirty jobs. Since I know you quite well by know, after so many postings and therefore have no doubt in you and what you wanted to say.


[11-06-2005,03:24]
[**.194.107.50]
Administrator
(in reply to: success story part 2)
Sharon,
Refering to the post that you have mentioned, I don´t see anything wrong in that. Its a personal opinion. In fact, just to cite an example, most of the jobs like store clerks, newspaper vendors, or deli shop workers in NYC are from south asian origin. And they don´t have any issues abt it, but they still want to get a better job for sure.

There is no "your point" out there at all. You gotta take the test I mentioned in the previous thread sharon, once you post your findings, believe me, you will have made your point !! Anything less is nowhere near where you want to be.

Nothing you write is rude, don´t worry. You just write what you feel. Consider this as a process where we all get to know each other. You see what are immigrants wishes and expectations and you also get to see what attitude the Canadians might have towards the immigrants. In restrospect, just think abt it, over a period of few months you will gain good insights on how people from different places think about Canada or life in general. For me it has been a enlightening experience talking and sharing others views in this forum, and its a pleasant diversion from "timeline" requests and "top 10 lists" of all sorts.



[11-06-2005,03:32]
[**.113.191.176]
Raj
(in reply to: success story part 2)
OK... I am trying to point out something and maybe I am not explaining myself very well. (would not be the first time) My apologies.

You see, ´honest jobs´ is a term we rarely hear around these parts. We think in terms of skilled and unskilled labour. entry level store clerks, newspaper vendors, pizza delivery would fall into what we call ´unskilled labour´ ad earn between $7 and $15 per hour. Jobs like carpenters, electricians etc. all require formal training in a school and have earned as much respect (and wages) as the accountants, MBA´s and engineers.

I watched a news piece on the TV a few weeks back where they were hiring longshoreman. The Vancouver port is booming and they are desperate for qualified staff. You know what the union representative said - a longshoreman can earn up to $90,000 a year. Who would think a job like ´that´ would earn so much money.

I understand and respect the investment people have made into their educations. CIC does not seem to quota skillsets- perhaps a dis-service to applicants. From what I see, they only want assurances that people have demonstrated their intelligence and ability to learn. It is also a way to narrow the gate.

I also understand and respect people´s desire to follow the path of their chosen profession. Sometimes, reality and want does not fit in the same sentence. I have made 3 full career changes in my life- partly out of desire for change, and partly because the work simply was not there and I did not want to sacrifice my lifestyle. I could write endless exmples of people making changes from choice and others from necessity (anyone trained as a blacksmith?)

Anyway my point is this... if you want a new life in Canada, Please have courage to explore opportunities outside the mindset of your home country. You would be shocked at the respect given and wages earned by those who work with their hands/do honest work/get their hands dirty - how ever you want to say it.






[11-06-2005,15:59]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon
i should stop reading the paper (in reply to: success story part 2)
Construction woos women to fill trades
INFRASTRUCTURE DEFICIT I Heavy building industry needs to expand its appeal to catch up on road to Olympics

Brian Morton
Vancouver Sun
Saturday, June 11, 2005

If you´ve ever considered trading in your sensible business attire for a hardhat and steel-toed boots, don´t let the fact that you´re female count you out.

That´s the word from the B.C. Roadbuilders & Heavy Construction Association, which says there will be a great demand for women in their field in the coming years.

"In the construction industry, women account for about 13 per cent of the workforce, up from about seven per cent in a decade," association director Dee Miller, who is also vice-president of finance administration and human resources for JJM Construction, said in an interview. But, she added: "I still don´t see a lot of women out there. And women operating a [heavy machine] at a construction site is maybe one in 50. We have a long way to go to balance that.

"But there are no barriers to women doing the work."

Miller, whose company is involved in roadbuilding, heavy civil construction and marine construction, said spending on road construction has soared in recent years.

"We used to spend about $300 million on capital works projects about 10 years ago. Today, we´re over $2 billion per year. And that´s only the Ministry of Transportation. The government is committed to doing infrastructure buildout for the Olympics. We have a huge infrastructure deficit that we´re trying to catch up on. Congestion in Vancouver is the worst in the country.

"We need women to consider us as a career opportunity because demographically we need to expand our appeal."

According to the association, which represents 188 member companies, more companies are willing to offer well-paid jobs for women.

The association cited a 2001 Statistics Canada report that shows a heavy-equipment operator in Vancouver makes, on average, more than $62,000 a year.

"And we have operators who make up to $90,000," added Miller.

The association anticipates a shortage of construction workers due to an aging population, declining birth rates and negative perceptions of the skilled trades among youth. Because of that, it said, the timely and cost-effective construction of the 2010 Olympic venues is a concern.

One way of addressing that shortage, according to the association, is to reach out to women to consider jobs such as operating heavy equipment, jobs that traditionally are done by men but are now more dependent on skill than muscle.

"I think there´s a perception by women that they have to be tough and muscular, but they don´t," said Miller. "Equipment operation is about hand-eye coordination. It´s finesse. And I think women have the ability to focus on detail as well as follow directions."

She said that while most training now is on site, the industry is moving towards classroom training as well as on-site apprenticeship programs. "We figure that by 2010, we´ll need 130,000 more people."

Jobs that are available for women include maintaining roads and building bridges, working on commercial and residential site preparation and working on sewer and water projects. As well, there is academic training for professionals such as architects, engineers and accountants.

The association notes that heavy equipment controls are now computerized and that for those trained on the job, employees can progress to supervisory positions such as safety officer or trainer, superintendent or project manager.

One woman who has started a career as a heavy equipment operator is 24-year-old Claudine Seaborne, who operates both a 35-ton articulated rock truck and a front-end loader for Peter Kiewit Sons Co. Ltd. on the Sea to Sky Highway project north of Horseshoe Bay.

"I´ve been doing this for three years," said Seaborne in an interview. "It´s big, powerful and I like moving rocks. It´s impressive watching what you can do in just one day."

Seaborne was working as a labourer for another construction company when she was asked if she´d like to operate a rock truck. "It was fun and challenging, and I kept on doing it. And the pay is pretty good too."

Seaborne said she thinks women often pass up such jobs because they feel they can´t do the work. "They think it´s a lot harder than it really is. But I think women are really good operators."

The project´s coordinator, Ryan Tones, said in an interview that there are 85 employees working on the site and about 15 to 20 are women. "There are probably five [women] who are equipment operators. They run the loaders and the rock trucks."

Tones had nothing but praise for his female operators.

"They´re doing an excellent job," he said. "I don´t think there´s any drawback. If they´re able to do the work, then gender shouldn´t be an issue."

Tones said many people still think that women aren´t up to the job of operating heavy machinery. "But as more people hear about the opportunities, that perception is changing. Their attention to the care of the equipment and productivity is excellent."

Despite the opportunities, the association noted in a release that a 2004 survey concluded that only 26 per cent of young people would consider a career in the skilled trades, compared to 67 per cent who cited university as their first choice. The association also noted that most young people said their parents did not encourage them to consider skilled trades as a career option.

bmorton@png.canwest.com
? The Vancouver Sun 2005

[11-06-2005,17:59]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon
(in reply to: success story part 2)

I have some very fundamental differences with sharon on almost all canadian economic issues. At the outset,I want to say that I have high regard for sharon because of her very helpful nature on this forum, and i wish her the very best...

about me, I have couple of postings about my canadian pr experience and i am extremely appreciative of canada for giving me the pr. I have a us MS degree in engineering and am in the us for last 5 yrs.

The very basic question what i think canada should address is "what is our economic vision for canada and who are our target PR applicants. If we stand any chance of competing with US how do we make canada attractive for very well qualified people vis-a-vis US. " ? Do we continue to have a socialist country and tax the crap out of honest working people, or we let the people have their own money..Do we make life difficult for small businesses who create jobs by all the regulations, or do we give them a free and fair reign and let free enterprise thrive ?

You have been saying that there are jobs available in construction, plumbing, road building, mechanics.

One cannot expect to have engineers and doctors, entrepreneurs leave their country and their good jobs, come to canada, take these low-skilled jobs and still be happy to be in canada..(Unless there are political persecutional reasons in their homeland)

Agreed, its not the governments job to find people employment, but it sure as heck is their duty to create circumstances and economic policies, where qualified people will succeed in their profession, and I just do not see that happening in canada... I agree to the point of foreign degrees and english skills, but even canadian university graduates arent doing good either..

It again goes back to what your vision for canada is. One good way to have a better economy, is to encourage small businesses, create attractive environment for major corporations who would bring jobs that need college degrees, and ..list goes on and on..

i m sorry, but i dont think any well qualified potential PR applicant would be thrilled to see the postings about vacancies in construction or road building...but i know a lot of them would be if the vacancies were in bio-technology, stem cells, engineering modeling, nuclear area research and so on..

As I said I like canada, but I am disappointed with the canadian economy and its direction. My point is that with a very very low defense expenditure, very less population, zero corruption, free political society, great infrastructure, THERE SHOULD BE NOTHING STOPPING CANADA....

I will write more in detail about china, outsourcing, outrageous health care costs, US - canada comparisons , but i want to know what people think..

I beleive this is an important topic to discuss, and it will definitely help the new applicants get better prepared.

Thank You All,
Parag






[11-06-2005,21:31]
[***.152.222.131]
Parag
(in reply to: success story part 2)
This disucssion appears to be stimulating as it progresses. Good to hear something different. I would like to hear more and even participate.

Thanks

[11-06-2005,22:58]
[***.6.160.84]
HC
(in reply to: success story part 2)
yes, but nobody has offered to come and clean my house for me!
[11-06-2005,23:14]
[***.20.170.23]
sharon
(in reply to: success story part 2)
Sharon,
let me respond to your paragraphs # 2 and 3, before getting to the real issue...

A prominent requirement for H1B visa approval is that the wage has to be more than the prevailing wage for that job position at that expereince in that geographical area.. So your claim that foreign citizens are not paid as much as US citizens is wrong AT LEAST for US MS and PhD holders.

While it is true that some software companies hire H1b candidates just so they can freely lay them off and not have to pay unemployment, but it is only in case of people who are here directly on h1b and who dont have a us degree. A US masters´ degree has an enormous ´leveling´ effect, and in lot of cases even is bigger advantage than US citizens....however, u are very right about the plight of ALL H1B people if they loose their job, unless their green card process is in the 3rd (I-485) stage...
About other things that you have said about US, I am sorry to see a intellegent person like you buy totally into what the enormously biased liberal US and canadian media wants you to believe...but thats for another time....

NOW, lets back to our original topic :

About who will do the low skilled jobs ?? the entire idea canada should have is try and fill the jobs by canadians first, and get foreign nationals in an area where there is a demonstrated shortage of canadians.

FOR EX: We know for a fact that americans and canadian socities do not see engineering / medicine as a high-respect profession, unlike say, india..When i was a teahcing assistant here in US, I asked every undergrad student about their career choices, and less than 5 % of them wanted to stay as an engineer, everyone wanted to be a lawyer or accountant..they were using engg as a launching pad to get into a good accounting or MBA school !!!!

So, when unemployment is HIGH and economy is BAD, and less than 30 % population has college degree, there is something very very wrong if canada´s problem is finding labor for low-skilled jobs in this environment..It shows that these jobs dont appeal to canadians, and also the unemployment insurance they get lets them get by fairly decently....

Canada´s short term strategy should be to take maximum advantage of the outsourcing wave in the US. The kind and number of jobs that were outsourced recently is mind-boggling, but lot of people have realized the mistake in having indian, chinese do those jobs, which have lot of customer interaction - language problem and manners, etiquettes and attitide were the problem ,

SO, since canada is very similar to US, and prices are cheaper than US, I would change my tax structure so much, that every company would want to outsource to canada, get into a mentality that if you are an employer, and u are creating jobs in canada, govt is ur best friend, give major concessions in tax, regulations, healthcare insurance coverages, co-pays, and in general make them feel welcome..

Also, canada needs to get away from the mentality that it is the job of hardworking honest people to feed and provide healthcare for those who didnt. i ve read stories where people dont feel any motivation to work, if 50 % of ur income is taken away in taxes !! I live in tax free state in us, and i still think federal tax is much higher....

Thats the Socialist mentality, whole idea that if u are making money, if u have a business.... You are Bad, we will get you ! Look where socialism has got france and germany !

So the low skilled jobs should be filled by canadians, at least until unemployment drops below 1 % and get foreigners only for high skilled jobs..high skilled jobs = high money = high tax income for govt = better economy = better developed country.. Again, what is your vision for ur country ?/ do u want to fill the country up with people who either dont qualify for good jobs due sto myraid of reasons, or your system doesnt recognize their worth and make them work for the betterment of country ??? OR do u want only those people to come to canada whose qualifications will fit the nature of jobs that you anticipate becoming available and importantly who will never become a dependent on ay social programs...

canada should have made this choice long ago, but even now its not too late....

[12-06-2005,00:56]
[***.199.185.133]
Parag
(in reply to: success story part 2)
guys, don´t laugh, Sharon is right. I get pay 150/day plus 100 hotel/day, 50 meal/day, just driving 5-ton, 33 feet long truck and deliver 5 types of Tourism Visitor guide from Vancouver Island to all the cities in B.C which have info centres.

I am neither Canadian citizen, neither PR. Just graduated college student with work-permit. What happened was neither of my co-workers wants to spend one month on the road without family and partners. No Canadian wanna do such job!!!!!

Depend on how you look at your job, for me, no problem. Lift boxes, Work out, I moved 600 boxes each load. For myself, I won??t have chance to visit each individual cities in B.C and get pay everything.

What I benefit? Meet all info centres staff around province, find a connection. some are really cute chicks, they are so nice. Almost each time when I visit new cities, I can ask them go out and have dinner with me.

Is that tough? Not at all, I drive 7 hour each day, drop off boxes, talk to chicks, after 4:00pm, check in hotel. For example, I spend day time driving, night time, bar, sight tour, Go to winery and taste wine, have dinner with cute chicks, maybe watch movie!
Saturday, Sunday, off and still get pay. I spend whole day in Vancouver, Stanley park today, tonight drink in white rock!!!!!

I feel so satisfied with what I have and appreciate what Canada gives to me.

[12-06-2005,06:06]
[**.207.47.66]
departure bay
(in reply to: success story part 2)
Departure,
Would you consider yourself above most or just average Joe graduating from your college as far as the pay package and job satisfaction ?
Remember, for every Einstein, there were thousands others whose names are not in the books.

[12-06-2005,10:51]
[**.113.191.176]
Raj