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| Subject: finally here |
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Well, after some 15 years of dreaming of living in Canada, I finally made it here, and on my birthday at that. I wish I could say it was a better experience so far.
As it turned out, none of our well laid plans turned out as expected and it´s made the past few days very difficult. Our housing situation isn´t at all acceptable, and there are few options for the short term. We are in total culture shock, the town we are in has virtually none of the amenities we are used to, and we are feeling 100% out of our element.
I feel lonely already and am crying all the time. None of it has to do with Canada, where, quite honestly, I forget I am. It´s all just a bad and hopefully short term situation that I hope will get remedied soon so I can post some happier experiences.
Richard and Sharon, sorry this anticipated post isn´t a happier one.
[09-08-2008,20:14]
[***.166.78.243]
wannabecanadian |
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(in reply to: finally here)
wannabe,
There are always many options in life, and you guys can always make a change. See if time will help overcome the situation, but if not, you can always move elsewhere and change for the better.
We felt exactly the same way when we moved to our small town in northwest Ontario about a year and a half ago. Complete culture shock, no one to know, and much of what we were used to, missing. I loved Canada and the scenic beauty of the area, but hated the personal isolation and constant feeling of unfamiliarity and quite frankly loneliness.
We gave it 9 months. No improvement, and it just got worse. Tried to strike up friendships, but people were generally too involved in their own personal lives. Unlike my Midwestern suburb, people avoided eye contact or greeting in passing. Yet everyone was generally friendly enough and helpful in stores, offices, hospital clinic, and government agencies.
Got what seemed like a promising job interview in my field in this smaller town, but was in for an awakening. With 3 other staff members sitting-in on the interview, at the end of my questioning the manager announced he would never hire me for this position. How rude I thought. I attributed it to my American background and job history, and perhaps suspicion of qualified Americans who could threaten their own job small town security. (maybe some Canadians have felt pushed around by Americans for so long, and now time for some of the reverse, I darkly thought.)
We moved back to our Midwestern suburb, deeply disenheartened about the experience, but still determined to immigrate. We ultimately decided on a larger city in Canada. More options and choices for housing, jobs, diversity, culture, activities, and making friends who might share our thinking and interests.
I can´t blame Canada for our bad experience. After all, smaller or less diverse locations everywhere are going to be limited in all aspects of quality of life. Yes, we´ll have to put up with very high housing prices as we consider Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal, but never again going to such an isolated place.
My apologies to Bill in Kelowna, as that may be an exceptional area, but for now some of us foreigners need a bit more than great scenery and possibly easy jobs in making the adjustment. But indeed, will check out that area of BC in the future.
So don´t lose hope about Canada, wannabe. I know, easier said than done when in such a situation. See how things go, but if necessary make a change. That´s what we did, yet still determined.
[09-08-2008,20:55]
[**.47.173.225]
Richard |
(in reply to: finally here)
Wannabe... a big hug to you. I am Canadian and I am not sure I could adjust to much of my own country. I am a city girl in spirit with a desire for sanity on the side. In my mind that is a whole lot different that a small town life style. To be honest, I am not sure I could cope with laid back, easy going NB.
I was on Granville Island the other night looking at the spectacular city skyline. My colleauge and I were discussing what it must be like to live in those tiny little condos in the middle of all the excitement. walk to the theatre, walk to the art gallery, nightclubs, fine restaurants, walk to work... sounds like Manhattan! Seems fabulous and many love it.
We both agreed that we liked our quite little hovels about 25 minutes out of town much better with full knowledge we have the option to go to the big city on a whim if we want to. Just the awareness that I can have a little bit of both keeps me going and willing to compromise just at bit at each end of the spectrum. I suspect Richard is of similar mind.
I am sure you are tired and emotionally exhausted. Cut yourself some slack. again... great big hug.
[09-08-2008,22:16]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: finally here)
Wannabe & Richard,
I´m feeling sorry to hear your experiences at the same time surprized to hear the cultural shock problem. I had an impression that America/Canada shares almost the same culturea and hence Americans are the least liklely to face cultural shock as the south Asians face. Now it looks like that even the south Asians don´t feel so much shock like you are saying.
Could you please elaborate more? Is it just problem of moving into smaller cities from mega cities?
I personally hate to live in the mega cities but got a strong feeling that in Canada it is very hard to avoid the big cities. Life is limited into few major cities.
[09-08-2008,23:26]
[**.207.127.42]
DC |
(in reply to: finally here)
I think Sharon put it well, and I agree with this view. Living near but not in the middle of an urban area works best (for me anyway). One can enjoy peace, quiet, and more relaxed lifestyle, yet have access to all the amenities and activities an hour or less away.
DC, this also addresses your point I think. I also wouldn´t want to live in the heart of a mega-city, as you put it. But as you can see from a few of us here, small town life is very limiting in what´s available - jobs, housing, cultural diversity, activities, etc. This then (in my opinion) limits quality of life.
And you´re right. One would think Americans could easily adapt to Canadian life, since both cultures seem so similar. But there is a difference in that Canadian rural towns or isolated areas are more remote than in the States. That´s probably why Canadian urban areas (suburban in my case) is a better goal for many Americans moving to Canada. Exceptions could be scenic or tourist areas where jobs and amenities are available (rural BC).
Not meaning any condescension, but I think immigrating Asians and others might not notice such things, as for many of them basic survival is the key - shelter, food, and job security. Or they can adapt under any circumstance much easier.
[09-08-2008,23:58]
[**.47.173.225]
Richard |
(in reply to: finally here)
there are hundreds of communities that do not fall into the category of the big 3. (over a million in population) but.. with every 100,000 in population that you lose, you also give up the resources to support significant art galleries, major theatre centres etc. Ottawa, Hamilton, Quebec City, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Victoria, Langley, Abbotsford are all communities with significant population that are rarely considered for many immigrants.
Life is not limited to a few major cities as you suggest.
What is the definition
[09-08-2008,23:59]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: finally here)
Thanks Richard, I understood what you mean now. Of course for the Asians the question is more for basic survival. May be while struggling for the basic survival the issue of cultural shock doesn´t come as that important. For the Asians the major shock comes from tehe language barrier. I still recall first days in the US. After staying many years I still can´t understand all acents at the first time.
Sharon,
By the term limited I better tried to mention "Forced". Yes, I should´ve clarifies the term limited. This is not just for only the immigrants that they want to stay in the mega cities, look at the overall Canadian population you will see the similar trend (not exactly the same of couse). There must be some good reasons beind this trend, isn´t it? Especially for the educated professionals (educated here I´m meaning the University grads) it´ll be very hard to stay and build their careers in the smaller cities. US trend is not that, though in the US the mega cities like LA, NY, Chicago..have millions of population centered but there are many other mid size smaller cities that offer even better professional opportunities. That´s why you´ll never hear in the USA that immigrants are struggling for a basic surving job in NY or LA while some employers in California are crying for them.
The Canadian cities that you mentioned I fully agree that they all can offer very good quality of life, only point, provided that you have to have a steady job in the first place. Otherwise natural beauty of Kelowna Or Quebec city would mean very little to me, may be the best vacation spot. Unless I can console my self by looking at the construction sites in the streets that there are great demand for the civil engineers (like someone here interpret and evaluate). In short, these cities can´t be that attractive for the professionals like San Hose, Austin or Palm beach. I mentiond the US cities to explain what can be the driving forces of the professionals to stay of the mega cities.
Though limited can be also in terms of other amenities as well, like healthcare...public transports...As far as I know, Canadian rural areas can´t offer similar services like the mega cities. Not quite sure for the places that you mentiond though, they should be out of this point.
[10-08-2008,11:25]
[**.207.127.42]
DC |
(in reply to: finally here)
Bill will likely want to chime in on this. Kelowna is far more than a vacation spot.
The interesting thing that we are finding is in the Vancouver area, significant employers are moving to the suburbs because of costs and the shortage of office space. Microsoft is moving in just down the street from my house - into a community of just over 100,000. head offices have been moving from Vancouver to Alberta in droves for the past decade.
You are right... there are more mid sized cities in the US, but there are also more people - 10 times more to be exact in the same relative land mass. If you compare ammenities from like size communities, I think you will find Canadian locations measure up just fine.
The deal is this - the 3 big cities are over saturated with new immigrant talent. You have 15 people competing for the same job. You go 200 miles down the road and the employer is crying in his coffee because he can´t find a worker. Yes, for some the lifestyle may not be all they wanted and for those with stellar skills and language proficiency... there is the ability to break through the crowd and get that big city job.
Right now Canada cannot force people to settle in a specific place. For some new Canadians it may be prudent to reconsider the conveniences of a mega city to the satisfactory conveniences of a smaller centre that actually have jobs available. Smaller centres have IT positions, they require doctors, nurses, engineers, you name it... they need it.
there is much discussion at the civic planning level in Vancouver how the city needs more service workers. Many of those service workers cannot afford to live in the city. There is an increase in what we call the reverse commute. Professionals living downtown in their fancy Cole Harbour condos and commuting to Richmond to work or perhaps further.
If you your lifestyle and interests require access to a world class symphony, or a great selection of live theatre and world class restaurants... then the big 3 must definitely be considered. But for most folks, community theatre can be just as enjoyable and the Edmonton Symphony is more than acceptable and the restaurant down the street is often more than acceptable.
[10-08-2008,15:35]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: finally here)
"significant employers are moving to the suburbs because of costs and the shortage of office space."
I wish they do this more. This is the key to spread the population.
US has 10 times more population, true, so does more cities. True. It doesn´t explain fully. Did you ever listen any conflicting news in US like Immigrants whinning for lack of jobs sitting in NY and employers are whinning for employees in California? Why this trend is not present there? It is not just the number, more how much really the cities can offer..
If you can show much opportunities then people would move by themselves, no law will be required. That was proved in Alberta. Lot of folks are moving there from ON/PQ. Contrarary to the popular allegation immigrants care very less for their cultural hubs. They first care for jobs.
Richard also clearly expressed why he wouldn´t live in smaller cities in Canada. He also finds many laggings...
[10-08-2008,17:13]
[**.207.127.42]
DC |
(in reply to: finally here)
Richard is not your normal immigrant. He has it good exactly where he is but wants things that money can´t buy. That is not the majority of new PR´s.
I don´t live in New York or California so I don´t know what the employers are saying.
Many immigrants stay in a bad city/economic situation far too long - just like some people stay in bad marriages too long. The idea of moving or taking new risks is daunting so they ride it out regardless of the hardship.
If you look at the inter-provincial migration, I submit it is coming primarily from Canadians who have been around a while and see some lucrative opportunities.
Ironically you are suggesting that more employers move to the suburbs - they have been doing it for the past decade but that has done little to change where people think they need to move to. Given the huge investment and risk involved in immigration it is surprising how little homework people do about where they should make their new home.
[10-08-2008,17:40]
[**.155.160.37]
Sharon |
(in reply to: finally here)
ihcrad may not be a normal imigrant, may e true. Though he also mentioned a point that leads to the money question - Lack of jobs.
You physically do not need to stay in New York or Califorina. I also never been in Alberta but can have a good idea about the job market there.
Of course I suggest more decentralization. Unlike US, Canada is way behind there resulting uneven population distribution. This is not ironic. I personally hate mega city life. Unless this type of decentralization happens, real flow of movement wouldn´t occur.
People do some homework, and at last majority of them prefer the same 3 megas, not for socialization. As based on tehir research they find that at least there they can manage a survival job with the help of their community members/relatives. Also, for career development, training smaller cities of Canada aren´t even comparable. This all leads them to box 1.
[10-08-2008,20:04]
[**.207.127.42]
DC |
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