English and Immigration

Canada Immigration Forum (discussion group)


 
       
Subject: English and Immigration
  arrrgggg, you guys are frustrating me.

You are totally missing the point. How many of you actually live in Canada at this moment in time? Are you speaking in theory or reality?

People applying for my executive assistant position considered themselve fluent in english. They weren´t. I am not talking about idioms, or slang - I am talking about basic sentence structure, general vocabulary, and conversational patterns. My point is, they could not do the job even though their training was exactly what I was needing. On a skilled worker application, only the primary applicant is required to declare his language proficiency. What happens to the rest of the family that wants a job when they arrive? May I suggest that an IELTS score of 12 is not enough to realize ones full academic potential in Canada- particularly if your job requires communication skills. If you are a family member of a skilled applicant, and your language skills are less than 12... your job opportunities and income potential are severely restricted. Accents are NOT the issue. Canada is a country of accents. Ability to communicate is the ONLY issue and the onus must be on the CIC applicant to prepare for this reality.

That is ALL I am saying. People come to this forum hoping for success in Canada. I would like to see everyone succeed. The best way to do that is to make sure that you can execute your skills in the language of your employer and clients.

How serious do I think this is... my guy is fluent in French and Arabic. He took some basic english in school as well. He is intending to live in english Canada. He is a very smart man but his english is not good enough to work to his full potential as an engineer. We work on his conversational english every day. We constantly work on his pronounciation and his grammar. I am used to his speach - if I can´t understand him, how will a stranger? He will never lose his accent, but we will do our best so people will never have a problem understanding him. Every time he comes here for a visit the first thing we do is sign him up for an english class. You know why? He wants that great job and he never wants his language skills to be what stops him.

12 points is not something to celebrate - it is a signal to get busy, even if your total score is 90.

[24-06-2007,20:57]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
When will your guy eventually settle in the English Canada?
[24-06-2007,22:13]
[**.109.16.143]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
hopefully within the next few months. If he can´t find the work he wants, I will encourage him to go to Montreal.
[25-06-2007,00:01]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
My colleague is a 32 year old U.S. citizen (born and raised) with double masters degree (MBA/M.S). I am a double masters from US.( Born and raised in India). Guess what... I correct his grammer at least 5 times a day!

I want to re-state my point. Language is not the concern for many who want immigrants to learn English. Its the accent that they desist.

BYW, I know many Americans working in India... English is India´s business language. Even I dont speak regional languages in India but I may be hired based on my English ability... irrespective of my US/Indian accent.

[25-06-2007,03:49]
[***.187.168.3]
Almost Perfect!!
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
Sharon, you said that you had gone through 350 CV´S for to select a Administative Assitant. How much time you spend in screening those CV´s? I guess, even 5 mts per CV makes 1750 mts, this divded by 8 makes 212days.isworth? The best management principle is maximum effciency with minimum resources. Let us assume , after spending so much of time,you´ve selec a candidate. If he/she resigns with one month notice,what you will do? the sane thing,at last what´s output.Employer only needs how much he make, dosent bother about excuses. In turn, if someone would have selected on the first lot. With the on the job training. He would be the best one comapre to what you have choosen now. For this type of jobs, a good motivation may yield a good result.



[25-06-2007,06:08]
[***.130.100.180]
REVANTH
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
quote :"hopefully within the next few months. If he can?t find the work he wants, I will encourage him to go to Montreal."

Sharon

Wow wow. Will you join him to Montreal. If yes, how will you handle your life in the French Canada, giving your poor French?



[25-06-2007,07:03]
[**.109.30.107]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
REVANTH & Almost Perfect,

Do not take everything posted in this board seriously. Open your minds

[25-06-2007,08:25]
[**.109.30.107]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
At the end of the day, this is a debate about how to linguistically integrate a nation. And one presumes that a nation that cannot communicate will be in danger of fragmenting - bad for the immigrant (one presumes), worse for the so called "national good". Given that the first world has and continues to @$%% the third world - particularly economically, I hope third world immigrants try to make things even by doing whats best for them, not for the nation. And if that means going to Canada for a "better life" (however they define it), and feel they can achieve that better life with no English skills, good for them. Working the system is the last bastion of resistance available in some cases. (And there are plenty of jobs that do not require "fluent" English skills, and plenty of opportunities to get work within certain ethnic communities themselves).
[25-06-2007,09:21]
[***.124.176.5]
Anonymous
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
While it is important to seek better opportunities by going through the painful process of immigration, it is essential to remember that people are not immigrating to make things even with the developed countries. This is not an issue of revenge!

Yes, there are racists everywhere, there are haters in every country, but that doesn´t mean immigrants should immitate those exceptions! It is better to try to become miscible with the country they are immigrating to rather than form clusters.

Jobs are available within the communities but without the main stream the communities would find it difficult to survive.

Anonumous4, what made you think that I closed my mind?! I see your comments are pretty much on similar issues as mine!

[25-06-2007,10:39]
[***.187.168.3]
Almost Perfect!!
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
Almost Perfect,

I did/do not mean anything negative. I always appreciate your comments and contributions. Unfortunately, there are some, between us, who pretend to help but indeed they have hidden agenda.

[25-06-2007,10:50]
[**.109.62.69]
Anonymous4
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
in my personal situation - if my guy cannot do what he loves and to his potential, I will not likely follow him to Montreal. I have a home, a good job, a family here. I would not go there for the same reasons I would not want to permanently move to his home country. Hopefully, we don´t have to make this choice.

As for the 350 resumes - first thing I did was look at the fomatting. If you can´t do a good job of your first impression, you are not for me. That made the first 75 go away. Then I started looking for spelling mistakes - if I found more than 3, or the sentences were backwards - you were not qualified to do the tasks I required. I am now down to 150.

Then I look for those wanting a career in something other than what I was offering- some people apply for everything regardless of the job... very foolish waste of paper.

down to 100. I passed 50 to a colleague and asked him to short list 15. I did the same. We are now at 30. We discussed the applications and selected the top 5 for interviews. If we did not have success after 5, we would go to the next 5. Total process - 3 days. 350 X5 minutes /60 minutes= 29 hours NOT 212 days.

I got what I wanted after 4 interviews. (no she was not white)

As for the assumption that everything is about India, or about racism... please get over yourselves. People on this forum ask about skills, job opportunities, cost of living, ability to suceed... why is the discussion of language skills all of a sudden a taboo subject?





[25-06-2007,11:10]
[***.121.220.199]
sharon
(in reply to: English and Immigration)
I think the focus should be to help those in need of information. This forum was created for that purpose.

We are prudent enough to understand those who want to help and those who have issues. Our contributions/frustrations show that we are here to help. We should appreciate all those who are guiding and just ignore the ignorants.


[25-06-2007,11:21]
[***.187.168.3]
Almost Perfect!!